This episode of the Being Human is Good For Business podcast features three supply chain management leaders in an informative discussion about the challenges they are facing in today’s changing times.
The panel (our first ever!) includes leadership development expert Heather Marasse, Managing Partner of Trilogy Effect. Joining Heather is:
Steve Weinstein, Head of Supply Chain & Operations at Zarbee’s, the number one pediatrician-recommended cough syrup and sleep support brand for kids 10 and under.
Angus Scott, Senior Vice President at Coravin, a wine technology company that is changing the way the world drinks wine, with products available in 60 countries, and
Jon Ragan, the Chief Operations Officer at the ThreeSixty Group, the company behind such inspiring brands as FAO Schwarz, Sharper Image, Discovery and more.
Listen here:
In this podcast you’ll learn that:
Now, more than ever, the supply chain is as strong as the relationships you’ve got with your vendors and suppliers. You need to be able to understand and trust each other if you’re going to be able to bring your products to market reliably, so relationship-building skills have come to the fore during this pandemic.
There’s been a shift in the balance of power for people managing the supply chain. Leaders here are gaining increased visibility and involvement in making important decisions.
For supply chain leaders, being vulnerable, learning to say no, and having healthy discussions to solve internal conflicts has been the key to keeping businesses afloat during the pandemic.
Links to information and resources discussed in this show:
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Machine Generated Transcript
What follows is a machine generated transcript. It may contain errors and is not a substitue for listening to the podcast:
Trilogy Effect E29 FINAL
[00:00:00] Steve Weinstein: Another thing that it did was, , it made people more comfortable to share bad news. Right. And in many, in many organizations, you never wanted to be the one right. To, to kind of be, be the one to say, Hey, this this happened or we couldn't fix it or whatever. And now it's, it's a lot more comfortable for supply chain people to show again, be vulnerable show that, that side that says.
I'm bringing a situation. I can come with recommendations, but I need it. I need help.
[00:00:34] Voice Over Man: Welcome to the being. Human is good for business podcast. In each episode, the leadership development experts at trilogy effect explore how the process of self-discovery unleashes potential in us all. Now here's your host Sherrilynne Starkie
[00:00:54] Sherrilynne Starkie: I'm Sherrilynne Starkie. Welcome to Being Human is Good for Business. This is the podcast for business leaders who want to build high performance teams. And we have an exciting show for you today because we have not one, not two but three supply chain experts joining to talk to us about the leadership challenges that they are facing in.
Today's rather changing times. First of all, I'd like to introduce you to Heather Marasse, the managing partner of trilogy effects, the leadership experts. Hi Heather. Hi. And next I'd like to introduce you to our panel members. We welcome Steve Weinstein, head of supply chain and operations at Zarby's. The number one pediatrician recommended cough syrup and sleep support Brand for kids.
And. Hi Steve.
[00:01:39] Steve Weinstein: And we
[00:01:39] Sherrilynne Starkie: also welcome Angus Scott. Who's the senior vice president at Coravin. It's a wine technology company that is changing the way the world drinks wine. And I follow you on social media. So I know everything that your fine products do, and you have products available in more than 60 countries. Welcome to the show, Angus.
And we also welcome Jon Ragan, the Chief Operations Officer at 360 group. That's the company that's behind such inspiring brands as FAO, Schwarz, sharper image Discovery, and more welcome to the show. Okay. So let's get into our conversation. So two years ago, very few people had ever thought. What a supply chain was.
They didn't even know the word or the concept. And now after several months of pandemic, life supply seems to be down the top of everybody's mind why this trend? Yeah.
[00:02:39] Jon Ragan: I think for the first time, what we're starting to see, and this has been evident since the beginning of the pandemic is that it's visible to the average consumer as you are in your grocery store, and you're a convenience store or your major retailer, there are empty shelves and that's not something that I think we've experienced certainly in the U S at least over the course of my lifetime on such a regular and extended basis.
So while there's confusion and probably many different reasons on the why behind that. It's much more visible and upfront day-to-day than it ever has been in our country.
[00:03:11] Steve Weinstein: Yeah. I call it Sherrilynne. We are the offensive line of the football team. We are not the media darlings, usually that's the quarterback and the running back, which is marketing and sales, but we provide for a good offense and to Jon's.
If we don't open up the holes or give the quarterback time to throw, there is no offense. And that's, what's happened in the last two years, between all the delays of the shortages challenges and that's what people are feeling. So when, when you struggled to grow it basically suddenly you get noticed, and that's why supply chain is getting so much.
[00:03:45] Angus Scott: Yeah, it's been really difficult the last couple of years, but I think people now understand the supply chain function and what it does. And a lot of that's been driven by media. I remember one of the first times that I, I saw the media on the ever given that was caught in the Suez canal and was backing up and tons and tons of other containers.
Yeah, people in Europe were just like panicking that they weren't going to get goods. And I think for a lot of friends and, and even colleagues I'd spoken to, it was the first time that they'd ever see the container ship and how big the container ship was. And they were like, oh, is this how you bring product into the country and how you get it?
And there was kind of a light bulb moment. And so I think the media is definitely. Kind of the supply chain and getting that out there and letting people know what the supply chain function does.
[00:04:42] Sherrilynne Starkie: And since that time, is it getting better or how are things going now? So I don't think I've seen a headline in the last.
[00:04:51] Steve Weinstein: I think overall certain issues have not gotten any better. So late labor challenges are still very much out there. Transportation is still an issue, especially trucks, truck drivers, and the capacity. I think also honestly, inflation and wages have really hurt because the ability to get things done at a cost effectively, right?
One of our challenges, it's not only about getting the product on the shelf, but doing it in a way that can. Profit to help fund businesses. Well, if we can deliver a supply chain, but if it doesn't come with a profit, it's also not sustainable. So I think those challenges are still out there. Sherrilynne.
[00:05:32] Heather Marasse: Yeah, I can remember.
Well, any product development group I've ever worked with at the early days of a product development cycle. To some degree, spend what we need to, to come up with this innovation. And then as it gets stabilized and the product is now ready for mass distribution, mass production. Well, then it gets thrown over the wall, our supply chain and operations friends to make this a lot less expensive.
And by the way, we want you to meet our forecast, which by the way, we're not really good at.
[00:06:09] Steve Weinstein: That never happened. I don't know what you're talking about.
[00:06:14] Heather Marasse: So I always sit in those meetings and think what could sports these folks are on the operational side of things.
[00:06:21] Angus Scott: Yeah. I don't think it's got, it's got perhaps marginally better just because we found and adapted and found different ways to, to work and go around our problems. Yeah, I think just last couple of weeks, Shenzhen in, in China's has been shut down and factories have been shut down.
And that has also a knock on effect to all of our suppliers. And now Shanghai is going to be shut down for another couple of weeks as well. So it seems to be kind of the cyclical roundabout. Those we seem to be on at the moment and doesn't seem to be a clear part, the outlet. So. A lot more challenges to come, but perhaps not to the same, same extent as they have been, or were just more adaptable and able to manage around.
[00:07:08] Jon Ragan: I certainly think, you know, the challenges are going to continue. I got an email update this morning. There's there's 53 ships anchored outside of Shanghai to Angus the point you were making it. And those aren't going to get loaded anytime soon. And so it's, it's going to further exacerbate the problem. I would agree.
We're feeling a little bit of relief now, but that's really because the peak periods or the urgent holidays are, are, are not immediately in front of us. But I think as we move into summer, everything that we experienced last year is going to resurface and be it's not as bad, potentially even worse.
[00:07:42] Sherrilynne Starkie: And what would you say is the biggest lesson of pandemics taught you?
Has it.
[00:07:47] Steve Weinstein: For me it's we do everything external. So we don't have any internal manufacturing. We're not vertically integrated. So we rely very heavily on our relationships and our partnerships. So not only your own employees, because the environment is very easy for them to watch. If they're not, if they're not happy, but your suppliers and your partners can also basically put you at the bottom of the list very easily as well.
So I, to me really, in a way that we've had to work very differently, I think it was Angus said we've adapted a lot. But it doesn't mean that you, you have, uh, easily built those strong relationships and, and you kind of realize in those really tough times, who are your partners and what do they need to make them feel good so that they can do for you?
Because without it, you're, you're, you're not going to deliver what you want. And, and there's so much adaptability and responsiveness and flexibility that that's needed resiliency that's needed, right. From all these challenges. So that to me is the biggest, the biggest lesson that.
[00:08:54] Angus Scott: Yeah, certainly just to build on that, Steven, just before you came on, Jen and I were talking about China and how he hadn't been over to, to our partners over in China for like two years now, which is being challenging in itself, operating on zoom calls, late night, zoom calls and telephone calls and early mornings and the hours of the day.
But I think one of the things that I've learned is the, because I put so much time and effort in building those relationships. Prior to the pandemic the few years prior to the pandemic and spending so much of my time in, out of the country and traveling and visiting my vendors in Europe and visiting dive vendors in Hong Kong and in China.
That those relationships have really paid off. Now, some of that might've been to the sacrifice of my family back then, but they're, they're seeing enough of me now. So that's like seriousness, those relationships that I felt I really have really paid off through the pandemic. I can not only read how they're feeling.
I can. I feel free to be able to ask some questions in case of what's really happening here. And I usually get up, get to the bottom of it, and that helps me. We'll be able to make better decisions. I think the challenge is that that information is always coming through a little bit, second hand. Whereas if you were in China, you would have more real time information.
If you're spending a week with your factory and your manufacturer, you're able to really see what the problems are rather than just trying to catch up a couple of times a week.
[00:10:27] Jon Ragan: I think the concepts and the thoughts that both Steven Angus has shared with have been right on. I, I would, I would summarize from, from my view is it's focused on the things that you can control because there are so many things that, that are outside of your control as a leader, as an organization, you just can't spend time in those areas.
And I think. Both comments previously talked about focusing on building the relationships and for us, it's, it's really starting to understand where those true partnerships are, where those strategic relationships lie. Historically, we've been a more transactionally based organization, whether that's with our manufacturers in China.
Or even with our ocean carriers, we, we, we're very adapted, very capable of finding the lowest cost provider. Again, whether that was a manufacturer, whether that was a trucking company or an ocean carrier, that's not the way of the world today. It's about relationships. There's, there's no one that's interested in finding the cheapest price or being a transactional partner.
So having the ability to define who's really key to our success and growth. And then build those relationships, even though it may not be face-to-face certainly we do that where we can, but really starting to prioritize again where we're spending our time, both from a people and process standpoint internally,
[00:11:44] Angus Scott: have you guys seen a shift in your organization and the way the supply chain function operates within the organization?
Certainly for me, I felt that it was much more sales orientated and focused towards what the sales team. Now I see the leadership looking at me saying, okay, what can we do? What, how can we deliver even you guys also seen that, that kind of change in visibility and in supply chain.
[00:12:12] Steve Weinstein: Yeah. So we're part of Johnson and Johnson and the consumer group, w we're actually saying.
As an end-to-end separate organization. So I sit with our managing director who is our president I'm on the leadership team. So to your point, Angus, there, there's almost no meetings that I'm not invited to right around those types of decisions, which is great. He, he actually, he came in last July. The first six months were really tough because the way he wanted data and the way he wanted to make decisions, we weren't set up for it at all.
And so what was interesting is we implemented a change in our reporting system and our integrated business planning, where at the early stages that we put that in, and that has actually helped because we are the first group that actually. Really looks at unconstrained demand and constrained supply and makes our commitment off of that marriage.
Whereas every, every other group within our consumer world, it's unconstrained demand over here. It's constrained supply over here and there is no linkage. And so I found that to be the biggest shift for us in the last six. That has actually helped us really talk about it in a way that supply chain has that equal seat at the table.
Whereas before it was go do it for the most part, right. Go figure out
exactly. Right.
[00:13:38] Heather Marasse: It's kind of like the downstream. Okay. Now you guys go fix this
[00:13:42] Steve Weinstein: exactly, right. It doesn't matter that the forecast is 50, 60% off. You'll figure it out. Right.
[00:13:50] Jon Ragan: I think for my part, I'm relatively new to the organization. I've only been here a little over it here, but I've certainly understood the history is as I've come on board and gotten to know the team, I think for us get to some of the comments that have been made.
Yes. Certainly I'm I'm at the seat for all of those conversations and in some ways, It is easier to make some of those decisions to not pursue an opportunity or pursue an activity. I think it's more at this point, circumstantial where a by-product of where we are. I don't think we're. Strategically are fundamentally changing how we operate yet because the conversations still aren't easy.
And it's, I think the, where we make the decision to not assume an opportunity is simply we don't have the resources. So it's easier to say no, but we still, we still are having those, I think, healthy internal conflicts to say, how do we operate and how should we operate going forward. So be interesting to see, as, as however, we come out of the current situation, what that looks like for our organization, at least what.
Permanent sort of changes in either philosophy or approach will be, be a part of that. So I think there's, I think we're seeing some change, but I don't, I wouldn't say it's permanent at this point.
[00:15:02] Heather Marasse: Yeah, there's still a hope that things are going to get back to normal.
[00:15:08] Steve Weinstein: Yeah. I don't think it's going to happen.
I wish I think it's an evolution in. Right. And, and I think there's some real positives, right? We were a culture that we were a hundred percent in the office to work from home was a radical thing. But now my team used to all be located in one, one office in, in Utah, and now we're spread out over the country.
Right. And now people know how to work remotely more. Right. So we're able to get more diverse talent, a wider mix of insights. But you have to work together differently. And so I think, I don't know that that's going to change anytime soon. I don't think labor availability is going to suddenly change.
And I think the whole almost designed, you said it other really, really well, that whole design of value is going to, I think, keep coming into play more because it's going to be so much more difficult to just fix it later. , it's just, you just don't have at the time.
[00:16:11] Angus Scott: It's been pretty interesting for our organization as we've kind of opened up the work anywhere from everywhere kind of policy that we put in place, which is culturally, just before COVID.
So it made it very easy for people to just pick up their PCs and leave and get on zoom and getting back into the rhythm again, game, but certainly expanding our talent to, to not have it in one location coming to one central hub. Has given us an opportunity. And I think we've made some really great hires of really good talent, pretty much in every area of the organization and with a shrinking talent pool in the local area, just wouldn't be able to do that.
So I think there's been some opportunity there as well for, for businesses. If they're prepared to look at talent outside of their current facility,
[00:17:02] Heather Marasse: I'm always curious about what gets people into the career. Supply chain operations. Like how do you end up in that career? How did you guys each end up in this?
Was this, did you always know you were going to end up in this kind of aspect of business
[00:17:20] Steve Weinstein: masochist and, I loved rejection all my life, so it was a natural fit. I did not, I'm not a traditional supply chain background person, Heather. I, I came out of economics and finance and. It's funny. I always said what I looked for was it wasn't a function.
It was to be a part of a team that helps run a business. That that was always what I looked for. And so I just found this seat because I think one of the things that's unique about supply chain is it is really at the center of everything because that last mile, right. If you're, if you're talking about.
Supply chain is involved, whether it's making it or shipping it or getting it to right. You as a consumer, if it's a service, it's the same way. Right. And, and the creation of, and, and I realized that it just had, it had these aspects in it that combine many different functions. And if you, an old boss used to call it speaking different languages, and you had to understand those different languages, then that really helped you to be a supply chain person, because you could understand what the other groups really want, know.
To your point, marketing is going to under commit and over deliver. Right? That's our goal sales is going to sand bag. Like not no offense to them. That's what their incentive to do is so if you can understand, and, and supply chain usually is going to be so conservative right on the flip side. So yeah, so I, I'm not the traditional, but I, I wound up really liking it and I guess people like me and so they didn't kick me out yet.
[00:18:52] Jon Ragan: So for me, it was, it was completely accidental. So I ended up on active duty in the military for five years coming out of college. And so as probably the best thing that I've ever done and great experiences, but as I was deciding or making the decision to transition out of the military, I didn't, I didn't know what I wanted to do for quote, my first real.
My only, or my largest criteria was simply, I wanted to work for a good company and a good organization that would help me figure out what, what my professional path in life was going to be. So I ended up to make a very long story short. I ended up going to work for GE lighting, actually in sales, which I was successful at.
I made the numbers that I was expected to make, but I, I did not. And I cannot say that with honesty that I was. Getting up every morning, passionate about selling light bulbs. So fortunately I had an opportunity to go to work for one of my customers at the time who was more on the supply chain and operations side of the business.
So as I started that role again, I had the skills from a lot of different things to, to, I think. The build people, build organizations, build a team, but I didn't know anything about supply chain. And I was very fortunate throughout, I would say the first four or five years that I was in supply chain and operations to have some, some great people above me that I would consider mentors.
And that really taught me not only I would say the, the fundamentals of the role, but really sort of the next steps and how to drive for excellence and how to achieve excellence.
[00:20:21] Heather Marasse: The accidental supply chain..
[00:20:24] Angus Scott: Yeah, for me also a bit of accidental supply chain opportunity. So, I mean, I have a finance background though. I was an accountant and. Yeah. I started my career in FP and A yeah. Moved through to financial accounting and then moved into control, various consultative roles and VP of finance roles. And then I came to work for Coravin.
This small kind of consumer products business is trying to change the way that the world drinks wine. And here I am the global controller looking after the finances and can off the HR. And, , yeah, I'm kind of wondering why we haven't got enough product to sell and why we're stocking out. And I, I think I saw moved it, inserted myself into the process, just being an inquisitive finance geek and just find a look at and understand why things weren't working properly.
And I guess I saw this as an opportunity and moved myself into the, the gap. If you like to understand why production wasn't working properly. The supply wasn't coming in correctly, sales weren't being full cost to properly and just inserted myself into the process and seemed to have a bit of a talent in that area.
And just ended up now for the last sort of five years running the entire operations team and supply chain function.
[00:21:47] Heather Marasse: It's interesting. I think it's one of the areas where you have to master both the soft and the hard skills of business. Like you really can't be in supply chain and just be analytical, especially now, given what you've said about.
Situation in the world where it's not about commodity and lowest cost provider anymore. It's, what's keeping businesses. Afloat is managing relationships. And so that's of course on the soft skill side. So you've got to have mastery in both growing, which requires some serious maturity and development.
It's an opportunity for people as they're embarking on their career. And that's no small feat to have to master both sides of the brain.
[00:22:33] Sherrilynne Starkie: Well, one thing I'm observing from what you've said is that you were all pretty skilled leaders before you stepped into the supply chain leadership roles. And I'm wondering how working with people like Heather and her team at Trilogy Effect can help someone become a well-rounded leader in supply chain management roles.
[00:22:59] Steve Weinstein: So for us Trilogy had worked with Zarbee's. Some years before I joined, I've only been there for three years. I'll say from almost day one. When I joined same w they actually help lead our 360 on onboarding of me for my team, which wound up being a terrific session, because I think as a leader coming in and not being known by the team at all, it really allowed for a forum of, okay, what is Steve about?
But also that. So much from what they'd been, what they'd been through, right. As, as a team. And then since then we we've had a lot of work around the integration into J and J. So a lot of change management. And again, I will say to anybody who listens to this podcast, if you're going through change and need change management, help, Trilogy is a terrific partner to do it because not only can they do it from the personal level of where people stand in that change management curve, but as a team.
Your own team and then key stakeholders and working with other people, they, they really have the expertise to manage all of it and, and it's what's needed because it is so hard to get through change in this environment, especially a remote environment.
[00:24:10] Angus Scott: Yeah, totally, totally second. That had a, started working with us in our leadership team on strategic planning and the change management piece of piece of our time of our business and what started off.
As kind of a group session with Heather and a team ended up that I really wanted to learn more about leadership and, and get in and understand my things, some weaknesses and areas that I need to work and build on. And I ended up working with Heather on a one-to-one basis. I still am. And I seen continued progression over the last two or three years that we've been working together now, Heather and.
It's been good for me and I think it's been good for my career. And so, yeah. Awesome.
[00:24:57] Jon Ragan: I've had the opportunity to work with other and trilogy at two different organizations now. And this is where we're actually in our second project with my current team. But yeah, at the end of the day, we're all human.
And I think sometimes , we tend to forget about that, given all of the other problems and challenges, and it becomes a at least for me personally, , given my outlook and the things that, that. Yeah. Some of the things I do well, but also some of the things I don't do as well, it can become very easy to just focus on the things that, that need to get done next and forget about the people and the fact that particularly in an environment where.
It's different today, even than it was two years ago where you don't interact with everyone. And so it's sometimes easy to default into assumptions or into areas where email becomes the only, or the primary means of communication. And that then just does not sustain that. Long-term and I think as you look at one of the things that we've done is worked with both myself and my direct leadership team to understand what makes each other, who we are, and just having that understanding and that respect enables and full tilt facilitates the conversation.
There's there's no, there's no magic solution here. At the end of the day, we still have conflict. We still have at times things that seem petty and again, elevated or escalated or exaggerated, and we have to deal with those, but at least. Understanding where that other person is coming from, makes those conversations a little less threatening.
And I think I'm comfortable saying we're all more able to be vulnerable in those conversations and let the guard down and just say, okay, I'm sensing that this is a big issue or a big concern. Why is that? How do we deal with it and how do we move forward? And sometimes you just need to take that pause and put aside the problem solving and focus on the conversation
[00:26:41] Heather Marasse: that kind of work we do.
And that you do because leadership is all about this. It's a bit of an art form. It's creative management to scientific. There's a lot of science behind it, but leadership is the creative side of things. And you can't it's best done in a group it's best done with others. Co-creating versus just creating on your own.
It's that? That's a hard slog. When I started doing this work, it was a little. Left of center. Like not everybody wanted to have these conversations, especially in business, but gradually it's become more and more mainstream to try and tackle the human aspect of the impact of not addressing it in business.
And how do we tackle it? What COVID did, was it just leveled the playing field for everyone in that suddenly we all were in this shared situation where nobody had been, nobody had the experience for this before nobody had been through a pandemic, at least nobody who was still practicing business.
[00:27:48] Steve Weinstein: And another thing that it did was it made people more comfortable to share bad news.
Right. And in many, in many organizations, you never wanted to be the one, right. To, to kind of be the one to say, Hey, this this happened or we couldn't fix it or whatever. And now it's, it's a lot more comfortable for supply chain people to again, be vulnerable. Show that, that side that says I'm bringing a situation.
I can come with recommendations. But I need to, I need help. Right? Or we need decisions that are going to need to be made. And, and if you have a, an environment where you can do that and foster that, I think it also really helps your organization, but the wider organization as well, because many people, what do you guys said before?
They don't understand supply chain that they just expect it's gonna, it's gonna happen?
[00:28:39] Sherrilynne Starkie: Well, Steve let's hope that our discussion today will help more people understand the challenges of managing the supply chain a whole lot. We've covered so much today. And there's a lot for leaders to take away from this episode.
Lesson one is that now more than ever before, the supply chain is as strong as the relationships you've got with your vendors and your suppliers. You need to be able to understand and trust each other. If you're going to be able to reliably bring your products to market. So relationship building skills have come to the fore during this pandemic.
Secondly, there's been a shift in balance power for people managing this. Leaders here are gaining increased visibility into the involvement in making important decisions. And finally, for supply chain leaders being human is indeed good for business. I think John Reagan said it best when he said. At the end of the day, we're all human.
And sometimes we tend to forget that yes, today we have heard that being vulnerable, learning to say no. And having healthy discussions to solve internal conflicts have been the key to keeping businesses afloat during the. I want to thank Heather and today's panel for, what's been a fascinating discussion.
If you want to explore some of these issues and concepts that we discussed, please check the show notes for links to information and resources, and please make sure you never miss an episode of our podcast. By subscribing. And if you have a second, please drop us a rating or review over on apple podcasts or wherever it is that you get your podcasts from, it will help other people be able to find our show.
And if you like the show, please recommend us to any of your friends and colleagues who want to become better, more effective leaders. I'm your host, Sherrilynne Starkie. And remember Being Human is Good for Business.